Nov. 24, 2000

With Notes from Laura Fraser, and Debra Bell

Witness Susan Mullins Continued:

"He straddled Anthany", "I believe that he was sitting on him", She watched the right hand of the police officer form a fist and strikes towards Anthany. Witness walked away because she did not want to witness anything else. It appears that opposition is making sure to the witness that it was only one police officer that she witnessed striking Anthany. No other officers. However she is testifying that she did not witness contact of the punches.

Constable Hemstead

Originally trained as an R.C.M.P. spent the past eleven years with Victoria. He was working as a marked vehicle. He heard the dispatch say that there was a man running into traffic and the man was trying to get into vehicles at the red light. Begbie St. and Stanley area. The next dispatch PAS located Anthany. He went to the scene. He claims that Anthany was screaming obsenities and pounding his fist on the pavement. He claims that he believed Anthany was overdosing on drugs. He indicated that it did not cross his mind that Anthany was aboriginal. He was not being violent towards anyone else. He believed he was no threat to himself either just minimal threat to himself. It was not necessary to tell anyone to step back. He was not mobile. Attendants went to get a stretcher. He said there was no response to his command to him to calm down and that Anthany did not need to remove his pants. Then Anthany started running. He claims that Anthany ran with out his jeans with his interaction with him. Yet witnesses have testified before that Anthany still had his pants on. Officer disagreed with previous testimony. He said that Sheldon had his emergency light system on. He requested further cover units. He considered chasing him but then he hesitated because he believed, "It was going to be a fight." He claims he did not chase Anthany because he would have to use a lot of force to control the situation. He focused his attention on other pedestrians and traffic to take responsibility to them. He did not see the interaction with constable Sheldon and Anthany. He believed that Sheldon was holding Anthany down with his hands on Anthany’s shoulders. He only describes a wrestling match. He recalls Anthany being face up and the large man used his upper body weight to pin Anthany down. His attention was focused on directing traffic. Hemstead grabbed Anthany’s ankles. He said that Anthany was not restrained at his feet. He was still convinced that drugs were involved. His impression at that point was that Anthany was a danger to himself and other people. He believed that it was a mental health problem as a result of drugs. He was asked if he was being arrested for a crime or under Mental Health Act. He said, "there was no crime that day". "Yes" he was under arrest. He dispatched the heading that it was based on under the Mental Health Act. He said that Anthany was still struggling on the stretcher. He was securied but he was still struggling on the stretcher. His legs were moving. His ankles never got free accept for maybe once. He also did not recall a blanket being put on Anthany. Constable Knoop went into the ambulance with Anthany. He heard everthying go quite when Anthany was being lifted into the ambulance. Policemen were laughing at the result of the scene and previous events. He observed scrapes on Anthany as a result of the struggle. He says that him and Sheldon have only talked about the Media coverage. He claims that Sheldon and himself have not ever talked about the exact events or interaction between Sheldon and Anthany. He claims there would not be time to look in his wallet or in his pockets to see if there was some kind of card to see if there was a medical reason for Anthany’s behaviour. He claims that the response would be the same any way to Anthany whether it was medical or not. He said he radioed a section 28. He arrived at the hospital twenty minutes later. Then he first notified that Anthany had gone into Cardiac arrest. His personal affects went into a plastic bag and he notified the nurse his identity. However some of the police already knew his identity. The subject of not acting alone has been brought up again. He did not act alone because it was not appropriate to act alone. Procedure was explained, physical presence, voice command (no particular training to do voice command) it would be a judgement call on how to deliver the voice command. It situation would be judged by the individual officer and using obscene language is possible, open hand restraint (arm bar), pepper spray, physical force or use of force (section 3-0) this police policy. The lowest level of force to the highest level of force. Entered in as exhibit 33. Pepper spray was not used it was discussed briefly and was advised to be not necessary. The use of force can rise or drop. The least amount of force must be used. These policies in his mind are "not written in stone". That is why pepper spray was not used and that everyone was at risk of getting contaminated. He did not see an empty handed technique. He only seen an open handed technique. Two cars and one wagon were at the scene. He believes that there may have been one unmarked vehicle. He put his gloves on when he went to assist constable Sheldon. His training of use of force is same as R.C.M.P.. An amendment was made in 1997 to the policy. Officer was not aware of the change in use of force. He testifies that it was not communicated to him that constable Sheldon was on scene. He only anticipated him. It was his impression that Anthany was not aware of who is around him. He did not even identify himself to Anthany. He does not personally use plastic restraints. He said that he could not take time to look at Anthany’s wallet because of the situation. H did not observe any kind of injuries when first had seen Anthany. It is only experience and not training to identify different behavour problems. If he didn’t fight with the police then there would not have been a reason to restrain them. Face down was used that day because he believed that they would have more control over Anthany. He controlled the feet and ankles and attempts to have his hands behind his back. Sheldon said he took a punch to the mouth. Sheldon is wearing a visor. Put face down was just done without group discussion. Stated Anthany faced to the left hand side and was yelling all that time. Strapped in process takes approx 30 seconds lifted into the ambulance with Constable Canoe staying in the ambulance because of fear for the paramedic’s safety. Constable Sanderson mentioned that it was Tony Dawson and that he had gone into cardiac arrest. This was the first time he heard his last name. Hemstad took notes because of the significance of the event. In the notes referrance was made that " He was unable to stop him" and called supervisor (boss) to attend the hospital. Asked about Dr Macfadden but did not remember him or other hospital staff. Mr Mac Donald speaks about use of force policy refers to the not the cause of the behaviour but the behaviour itself and duty to protect the public. Mental Health Act is presented as exhibit 32 as the authority he is working under implying that officer a can immediately apprehend and take to the hospital. Medical determination is not necessary only if a threat to self or others is identified. "reacting appropriately with his environment". Royal Jubiliee Hospital is 5 blocks away and is there in 3 minutes with their lights on. Considine asks if Sheldon was appropriately acting with Anthany and felt that the civilian should be commended for his assistance. Mr. Orr asked about the BC Tel worker hearing the two tones was Hemstead siren sounds. Did he recognize if it was Anthany? "No" but had dealings with Mr. Dawson in the last ten years and stated he did not have bad feelings about him and hadn’t dealt with him in the last year. Mr Brooks asked about the report and when the police began their investigation at 5pm at the hospital. For crown council his report was really started next day says Hemstead. Jury asked why he didn’t recognize him. Because his hair was shorter and looked leaner.

Constable Sheldan

Serve for the past nine years in Victoria Police department. He normally is a mounted police officer. He has been mounted officer for the past seven years. Six months of year he is mounted police officer. He used the motorcycle for only getting back and forth to stables. He was not dispatched to this scene. He dispatched to head office that he was available to scene as he was on route. He heard a call from Cook and Fort St.. He headed up Fort St. He approached the other emergency vehicles first on his motorcycle. He slowed down with lights but no siren. He said he only briefly stopped. Then proceeded forward. He weaved through traffic. He said he was just lying on the road initially. He believed that he request for help on radio was not heard over the radio system. He recalls Anthany holding his head. He says that he attempted to assure him. It did not seem to him that Anthany was under any kind of influence of drugs. He believed it was a mental health issue. He said that he received a punch in the mouth. In his memory it was open handed. He says that he believed that Anthany did not do this to him intentionally and he assessed that Anthany was a risk. He indicated his last dealings with Anthany was four to five years ago. He has changed his wording now that it was not a punch it was a strike to the face. The motion Anthany made to him was automatic reaction. The technique that he used was a take down method. He remembers himself with one rapid movement half closed fist to try and retain custody of his shoulder. He says that he could not do this procedure. *Earlier testimony from constable Hemstead. Anthany has only fled once. Sheldan did not wait because Anthany had fled twice. He was asked could he have not just guarded over Anthany. He believed that he had to just get Anthany of the road. Individual officers do not follow a step-by-step procedure you pick the level of intervention. He said that he did not use impact method. He said he knew the man that offered him help was a trained peace officer. A large number of Police officers have been in and out of the inquest today. He said that there was a failed attempt to get Anthany on the stretcher. There was another Attemp and then Anthany was placed on stretcher again. He said that Anthany was still rocking back and forth but is less mobile because of the belts on the stretcher. He said the positioning they used on Anthany was not a concern because Anthany was still moving and moaning. The laughing was because the stress of the situation. He did recall laughing himself. He disagrees that he used too much force. *Other witness testified that he struck four times. It is up to the individual to decide which impact techniques suit them. He was sure that he did not use impact method. He would not deal with the situation any different. He considered pepper spray because he would have contaminated himself. He said that he did not make notes in his notebook. He made one short note. He believed that it was not required. He also claimed that he was not aware of cardiac arrest before he left the scene. It was a long time afterwards when he was made aware of. He wrote a Will Say either a next day or the following week. He believed that he had nothing to add to the investigation. He said he was an assisting officer not a witness. He said he wrote the will say that same day. However the Will Say was not dated. No one went through his Will Say or recorded any information regarding this matter. He was asked by Brooks, "Why he did not stop traffic?" He made no motion to stop any traffic. He said he stopped traffic by just looking at them. He made no voice commands or hand movements. He said he was "walked on" that is why he didn’t wait for help. Brooks asked him if he asked Anthany, "Can you hear me?" He said, "No". Yet he says his only attention was to get Anthany off the road. He gave him no such commands of the sort. He said that when he was struck by Anthany that his head "flicked" back because of the impact from the strike. *No one else has testified seeing the arm movement of Anthany striking Sheldan or his head flicking back. He does not remember giving Anthany any verbal commands. Sheldan believed he followed Victoria Police Department policy. He does not account his inability to interact with Anthany as any lack of training. He says that voice commands were not working. *Earlier he could not even remember the voice commands that he used. He was very certain that he did not tell Anthany to "Fuckin roll over-". He was shown the injuries on Anthany from autopsy. Sheldan quickly that he did not recall those injuries. The only restraint method that was used was physical in his recollection. Sheldon did not see any plastic restraints used. He did not recall if Anthany made any other noise after he was on the stretcher. Two letters were read in as exhibit 33. These letters were to thank him for his work in the past. He believed as in these letters that he always carries himself in a respectful way. He believed that he was only assisting. He claims that he did not take out his baton more like a metal rod. There is concern that Anthany had been struk on his feet with either a baton or a metal rod. He also stated that he did not have a tazer gun on him that day. He said that he did not find out about the cardiac arrest until possibly Aug. 13, 2000. He says there was a lot of internal investigation into this matter but he was never investigating on him. When he was phoned by an R.C.M.P. investigator Sheldon did not discuss anything with him he reffered him to his lawyer.

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November 23,2000 Anthany Dawson Inquest

notes taken by Debra Bell

Court resumed at 9:30 a.m.

Witness #44 Sharon McLean

Mr. Orr-Coroner’s lawyer

She was going into Oak Bay on a bus ,sitting on the right hand

side in a window seat that August 11th. She saw a man who she now

knows was Anthany Dawson out the window. The bus was traveling

past Oak Bay Junction.She saw a group of 4-5 people standing near

a body in the middle of the road. After a couple of minutes a man

waved the bus on and she noticed Anthany waving his hands around.

She thought at that point the man was not injured because if you

areinjured by an auto you would not be moving around.

The bus continued on down Oak Bay Avenue and she got off the bus

at her stop at Richmond and Oak Bay Avenue. She heard an animal

roar and was afraid and looked behind her and saw a naked man

running down the road.She kept walking, looking behind her saw

the man lying down in he middle of the road. She was shown the

video of the street and identified the area past Harry’s Flowers.

The man was on the ground, totally inert.She next saw a policeman

arrive on a motorcycle, he got off the motorcycle, bent down

towards the man and put his hands under the arms of Anthany and

tried to move him. He could not budge the man so the officer came

to the front of the man and swung just off Mr. Dawsons chest,the

officer straddled him, sat on his chest, she saw the officers

torso twist and with a fist punched Mr. Dawson , though she did

not see the fist reach Mr. Dason, she said she saw what she saw,

the officer punching Anthany twice.

At that point she felt physically ill at what she saw, turned

around and went home.She was so disturbed about the aggression of

the policeman that she typed a statement of what she saw when she

saw an ad in the Times-Colonist asking for info about this

incident.She contacted the police and they took the information

down and sent her a copy to proof.

Mr. Orr asked her about a couple of errors in the statement they

sent to her, she said there was two errors , he asked her if they

were significant and she said they were not really. One referred

to Harry Flowers as Harold’s Flowers and included as well a

reference she supposedly made to the Truth Centre, which she

never said in her statement, nor does she know of such a place.

Adrian Brooks-Dawson Lawyer 9:45 a.m.

Asks her about the animal sound she heard when she got off the

bus, she said she was standing by Harry’s Grocers and that it was

a guttural sound. She saw Mr. Dawson, got afraid and quickened

her pace. Asks her about when she looked bak and saw him on the

ground. She said he was not moving and the sounds had stopped. He

asks her how long it was before the motorcycle police officer

arrived. She wasn’t all that sure but thought it might have been

about a minute. She said the policeman parked his motorbike on

the far side of Anthany ,he had a motorcycle helmet on , she

could not remember if he had gloves on.

He asked if she would be able to hear a normal conversation. She

said yes.He walks her through her testimony again.....recalls the

officer bending down,trys to lift Anthany under the arms from

behind, not successful, then moves to anthany’s front and me she

has not heard the officer say anything to Anthany.The first thing

she saw was the officers closed fist rapidly going towards

Anthany’s face. She turned away, sickened by the aggression and

went home.

Mr. MacDonald -lawyer for the police 9:15 a.m.

States to the witness rather than asks her what she saw.

He states to her that she fist saw Anthany when she was on the

bus and he was flailing his arms and legs.She disagrees that she

said flailing and mr. MacDonald refers to the two statements she

made, and in those statement she says flailing.

He next tells her that she did not see any police officers near

Anthany. She said no, but she did see the ambulance arrive but

she did not see any paramedics.

Mr. Considine-lawyer for Constable Sheldon and the off duty

sheriff

"Ms. McLean, when you first saw Mr. Dawson, it caused you some

distress..the animal roar, you were concerned for your

safety?..you were too far away of course to hear anything said"

I think she said no she could not hear anything. The lawyer then

tells her she did not know the purpose the officer put his arms

around Anthany. He told her she did not know what interaction mr.

Dawson had already had with the police, "did she?" "You saw the

action of the punch but you did not see the punch connect with

Mr. Dawson did you?" the witness said she knew it was a punch and

knew what she saw.

Condisine asked her if she was aware of standard restraints used

by police in dealing with people, that by their presence

initially and if this does not subdue a person of interest then

the police go to the next step of verbally making their presence

known and lastly, physical restraint procedure are used. The

witness did not know of these police procedures. The witness

ended her testimony at 9:20 a.m.